Hmmm.

No, I don't intend to imply that science is a form of faith. They are two seperate things, and they are not mutually exclusive. Graphic art and music are two seperate things as well, but they can coexist quite happily, as we are shown in, say, a music video. Science and faith can coexist quite happily together.

I am NOT attempting to defend the (admitedly) large number of knee-jerk religious folks who get their minds stuck in one position and refuse to budge fro mthat position. I get aggravated with those folks, too. What I *am* trying to do is broaden the perspective of the folks on the opposite side of the room, the knee-jerk anti-religious folks, by providing apersonal example of flexible, adaptable, open-minded faith.

I also not knocking science. I'm an engineer, for cryin' out loud. I like science. My girlfriend is a science teacher. I wish more people in this country would learn more science.

I have to disagree about proof once more, though. In science we cannot prove that something is true, we can only prove that it is untrue. A well tested hypothesis becomes a theory, and a well-tested theory becomes a law. This means that people try to find exceptions to the rule, or cases where the hypothesis fails. If the hypothesis fails, it is revised and the new hypothesis is tested. It's a counter-intuitive process, where we come up with an idea and then attack the daylights out of it to see if it holds up, but it's the only way to be objective. (for the love of whatever is valued by the people reading this, will another scientist or engineer please step in and back me up on this?) (about hypothesis testing, that is)

Otherwise we just prove what we set out to prove whether it's correct or not. My physics professor made us (as our lab final) *prove* that the acceleration due to gravity in the lab had been reduced to 8 m/s^2 rather than the usual 9.8 m/s^2. We had to design an experiment that would show that this was the case. We did. What did it prove? Nothing. Only that data can be skewed. But that was the point of the excercise.

The first steam ship to cross the Atlantic carried within its cargo holds a book that "proved" that it was impossible for a ship to carry enough fuel to make a voyage across the ocean. Again, we can't prove something is true, we can only prove that something is untrue. So why can kangaroos jump when we can "prove" they can't? As Virgil said, "They can because they think they can." Somehow I think that explanation doesn't provide much satisfaction. Yes, physics can "prove" that kangaroos can't jump and that bumblebees cannot fly, but all that really proves is that there is something wrong with our models (hypotheses) and that we need to go back and refine our models and see if the new models stand up to the tests.

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to tell me about reigning in hedonistic impulses... we're supposed to behave in order to please those people "in charge" who derive pleasure from our suffering? In that case, my man, your clear obligation and duty is to start a revolution and overthrow the government in favor of absoute anarchy. At the very least shouldn't you be attempting to sire as many offspring as humanly possible? And consume as many mind-altering drugs as possible? Clearly the answer to all these questions is "NO!" What I'm asking is why don't you do them? I know why I don't (has to do with that "higher purpose" that I possibly foolishly believe in), I'm just trying to understand more about why you don't. And surely there's more than your desire to please those who want to control you.

Actually, I do have another theory for that, which yo uare more than welcome to adpot and subscribe to if you like. I dated a social worker for a while and I frequently disagreed with lots of theories on human behavior that she frequently talked about (like Transaction Analysis... look that up if you want a laugh), so in order to tease her I came up with the Waylon Theory of Fear and Self-Preservation, which says that people's behavior is dictated primarily by the fear of the consequences of that behavior. Why don't we steal? Because we're afraid of going to jail. Why do we get a job? Because we're afraid of starving to death on the street. And the best part of all is that you can shoot down the theory and find examples that it doesn't explain (like why we eat ice cream). Once again, we can't prove it's true, we can only prove it's untrue.